In the first part of our interview with AJ, we chatted about the challenging beginnings of a creative business, how their signature products, the blobs, were born, and everything that goes into their brand, from clay to newsletters, from kilns to Instagram posts.
Below, amongst many things, AJ shares how they operate their newsletter which now has over 6000 subscribers, their tips for pricing creative work, and how you can get into pottery with minimum spending. From this interview, you can also learn more about Aberdeen Ceramics Studio that AJ co-founded, and why they go through so many post-its to keep their life together.
Petra: You have your webshop, the newsletter, Instagram and Facebook. Do you think it’s important to be present on several channels as a creator?
AJ: Yeah, I do think it’s really important because you can make the most amazing and beautiful things but if nobody sees them, then you won’t have anybody to sell them to. It’s underappreciated how much work goes into it by the way: the “showing” part. I’ve done a lot of work over the last few months to try and make it a bit easier for myself to manage my social media because I do enjoy making videos, editing, and uploading them but I also have to make the time for it because otherwise it would never be done and I’d be busy doing other things.
Overall, I don’t have that many platforms that I’m on. I think I definitely could be on more but you have to balance how much time you spend on your social media and how much time you spend on your work. I’ve heard it described as having two full-time jobs, managing your social media, and managing your actual work.
Petra: Since you like creating videos, have you thought about trying out platforms like YouTube?
AJ: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about making a YouTube channel because I’ve been making longer-form videos on Instagram, about eight or nine minutes, and I’ve been doing little voiceovers which I have been really enjoying, going more in-depth about how I’m making things. Me and my partner have also been talking for years about doing a podcast together. I think that would be really fun, and we’re starting to get the wheels turning on possibly starting that this year. Just as an excuse to talk to all of our friends who are creative people. 😅
Petra: About your newsletter. What is its purpose, how do you use it?
AJ: I don’t want to completely overload people’s inboxes with information, and then have them miss the ones that are truly important, like when I’ve got something to say about a market where I’ll be and want people to attend, a sale coming up on my website, or the kids’ competition [At the time of the interview, AJ is running a competition for kids where they can send in their drawings and other creations, and AJ will turn three of them into ceramic blobs as the prizes.]. So I don’t have a regular schedule for sending out newsletters, I just use it when I have information to share, whereas I use my Instagram, for instance, more casually. There I try and post more regularly.
Petra: And how many newsletter subscribers do you have?
AJ: I think I’ve got about six or seven thousand email subscriptions and about 4,000 of those get opened at least. I think that’s a pretty good number and I’m quite pleased with that.
Petra: I think that’s amazing! And how long did it take for you to get to this number?
AJ: I started it not long after I started my website, so it’s been maybe two and a half years. I think it’s good that I made it immediately clear on my website that if you want an update on when my shop uploads are going to be, then subscribe to my emails. So I know that the people who are subscribed are interested in hearing the information that I’m going to be sending to them. This also means I don’t get a lot of people unsubscribing which is quite good.
When it comes to a newsletter, I think it’s important to be clear to people about what you will be sending them and what information they will be receiving, not only from a GDPR point of view but also to simply let people know what they’re signing up for.
Petra: You mentioned that because of The Great Pottery Throwdown TV show [learn more about this in the first part of our interview with AJ] you gained a lot of new Instagram followers. Was that the case with your newsletter subscribers as well?
AJ: Yeah, absolutely. There was a big jump in the amount of people who subscribed to the newsletter then, but I also tend to get a lot more subscribers coming in when I post on Instagram. For instance, when I post a process video of creating some blobs, people will subscribe to my newsletter because they want to know when they will be available to buy. It’s worth posting things like that on Instagram because it does get people interested and can help to get that reliable customer base.
Petra: Do you look at what other creators do in your field when it comes to their social media or any kind of promotion or marketing?
AJ: I definitely used to, especially when I was just graduating from university and I was trying to build up my brand identity. I did a lot of research, looking at other creators and their social media profiles, what they were posting, the frequency, the color palettes, and the hashtags they were using… Then, I tried to be true to my own style of posting and I think that consistency keeps people coming back because people that are generally and genuinely interested in that will come back as they’re expecting it.
I try and keep it colorful because that’s what I like to see myself, too. I put a chunk of information on there that I want to tell people but you don’t necessarily have to read it to understand the post though. That’s because I’m also one of those people who quite often can’t be bothered reading loads of text and a million hashtags when I’m scrolling.
I’m trying to think of if someone was searching for something and wanted to find my work, what might be the things they search for: colorful ceramics, character design, or creature ornaments. I guess their ideas and include those in the post. After all, it’s good to be able to experiment with it and see what gets more interaction and what gets less interaction, too.
But, the most important part is to just try and enjoy it because I think people respond to that and they can see that in your work if you’re enjoying posting about it. People can sense that. I try and do things that are fun for me and hopefully, it’s fun for other people as well.
Petra: Have you ever tracked any kind of metrics on social media?
AJ: Not really. I find it kind of stressful. I don’t want to put pressure on myself to think that I need to perform better online. Then I wouldn’t enjoy it and either wouldn’t post enough because I would not be enjoying it or when I would post, it would get kind of stale because I wouldn’t be enjoying it and the posts would get less interaction anyway since I wouldn’t be putting out anything that’s kind of enjoyable for other people.
Petra: Besides the digital part, you go to events to sell your creations. Where do your products sell better, in events or online?
AJ: I love doing events. I think they’re so much fun and it’s so great to speak to people in person and interact with your customer base in a way that’s not an email or a comment online. I find that really rewarding. When it comes to sales, I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge difference. If I had to pick, I’d say that I have more sales online and it’s a lot steadier there because I have a much larger audience that I’m selling to versus the amount of people who can make it to an in-person market. But I think that’s just because you have a smaller pool of people at an event, even though you also do get a lot of returning customers. I do a Christmas market in my art studio every year and I usually see many of the same customers every year who will come back and chat with me and buy a few things, and that’s always really nice.
I’m still trying to find a balance of how many in-person markets I should do, versus online selling. It depends on everyone’s practice, too. I know a lot of potters who have a lot more success in person than they do online, and so they arrange for and sort of plan their markets through the year according to that. But for me, I find that online is a bit more successful and overall, it’s definitely worth doing both online selling and the markets, if you can.
Petra: Do you keep track of your finances?
AJ: I used to use a spreadsheet but then as I got busier, I found it harder and harder to keep on top of, so I employed an accountant who now does my tax return at the end of the year and everything else needed. That has made a huge difference because it took that weight off my shoulders. I also have a folder where I keep all my finances and all my receipts, and I have an Excel document on my laptop where I keep track of everything, but mostly it’s done by my accountant.
Petra: How do you approach pricing your work?
AJ: I find it really hard. I also have a document for this on my laptop that helps me figure out how much to sell things for. My partner’s brother is very savvy with spreadsheets, so he helped me set it up and basically, it’s automatic. I’ll put in how many hours I worked on something, what the materials cost, what the postage is, and all the rest, and it’ll work out for me what price I should be selling it for. That’s been really helpful.
Petra: Have you changed your pricing strategies since the beginning?
AJ: Yes. I think what makes the biggest difference in my pricing is my time and how long things take. When I first started selling things, I was a newly graduated student, so I was charging my hourly rate based on the recommended rate for artists who had just recently graduated. Now that I’m a bit more established, I use an hourly rate that’s a little bit higher because I have that experience and I have the following, but in the past I also had people emailing me that I should be charging more for my work.
I’ve gotten to the point now where I feel quite comfortable in what I’m charging and I feel like it’s the right amount, that it fairly reflects the hours that I’ve put into something whilst also keeping it within a reasonable budget.
But I’m also expanding and trying to merchandise because I can sell those cheaper since it takes a lot less time for me to create and get them out there. It creates a smaller price point.
Petra: When you graduated and figured out your prices for the first time, did you google those industry standards? What resource did you use?
AJ: So much trial and error goes into this! Yes, there was a lot of googling, and there was a lot of asking other artists, lecturers, and teachers. What definitely helps is finding another artist who does similar things to you and maybe has a similar-sized audience and learning what they’re charging for their work. If you see another artist’s process video where they’re making something and see they’re putting in about the same amount of work as you, that can help you get started about your prices. But it can be good to keep in mind the number of followers they have because you might have half of that, so that is also something to consider when you’re trying to decide what you should be charging. There’s a lot of comparing back and forth.
Petra: For ceramics, you also need very different and pricier equipment than a digital artist, for instance.
AJ: Yes, and it very much depends on what you want to make and where you’re based because there are places out there like the Aberdeen Ceramics Studio, the Dundee Ceramics Workshop, and the Edinburgh Ceramics Workshop, where you can go and use their facilities. You can use their kilns and wheels, you can buy clay there and you don’t need to buy all the equipment yourself. You just pay a membership fee. In the Aberdeen Ceramics Studio, it’s 60 pounds for 6 hours a week and it’s 120 pounds for 12 hours a week.
At home, if you’re doing hand-building, all you need is a desk and a bag of clay. You can start with cheaper clay and then try a few different samples and build up to a clay that’s maybe slightly more expensive but is more suited to what you do, which is what I did. Then, the kilns probably start at about a thousand pounds for a smaller kiln. My first kiln was about 1200 pounds, and that lasted me for years, and up until now. They’re an investment but they do last forever if you take good care of them.
Then, if you want to do throwing, a good throwing wheel is going to be about eight or nine hundred pounds for the cheapest ones, and the really good ones are about 1300 pounds. There are also smaller wheels that you can get for maybe three or four hundred pounds that are good for throwing things that are up to maybe a cereal bowl or a mug in size.
Overall, yes, it’s a very expensive hobby to get started but that’s why we’ve got the Aberdeen Ceramics Studio opened up as well, and there are quite a lot of places up and down the UK and across the world for the same purpose, so definitely do your research where you are, and see if there’s any ceramics studio near you. Sometimes there will be an artist who’s near you and will rent out their kiln, so you can make things at home, and then take it to them and they’ll just charge you for firing things. It’s worth asking, right?
Petra: Is there a second-hand market for this equipment?
AJ: Absolutely! There’s quite a big second-hand market for ceramics equipment, so definitely have a look. In fact, a lot of our equipment in the Aberdeen Ceramics Studio is second-hand, including our kilns.
Petra: So you opened the Aberdeen Ceramics Studio to help people who don’t have the equipment at home but want to do it anyway, and so now they have a place to do it.
AJ: Yes! A lot of our founders and in particular Amy [Amy Benzie, ceramic maker and facilitator, and member of the founding team for the Studio], graduated in ceramics in Aberdeen, and then had to move to Edinburgh because she couldn’t afford to buy her own equipment. There wasn’t anywhere that she could work in Aberdeen, the closest was Edinburgh. I think it was maybe a year or two of being down there for her as we were working on the Aberdeen studio, and then she managed to move back up to Aberdeen, and once we had opened up, she could work there, too. It makes it so much easier for folks to have access to ceramics.
Especially, because there’s such a great Ceramics department at the Gray’s School of Art in Aberdeen, but once you’ve graduated, there’s nowhere really that you can go practice and work unless you buy your own equipment, which is thousands of pounds minimum. So I think it’s been a really great thing to be able to be a part of the Studio.
Petra: The Kids Art Competition you’re running right now must also be related to this idea, but for kids this time, so they can discover art and the fun of creating. Is this the first time that you’re doing this?
AJ: Yes, it’s my first time and I’m very excited about it. I was watching Blown Away on Netflix, a glass-blowing competition. One of the challenges they did was that they had to turn kids’ drawings into something made of glass. I thought that was such a cool project and a cool idea to get kids to do something creative and to do a collaboration with someone that way. I also wanted to do something in the studio that would be refreshing creatively so I thought, why don’t I do a kids’ art competition? I can benefit from it because I can have some fun while making some cool things kids designed and it’ll also encourage kids to be creative at home and do some fun projects. Then we can do our little online gallery of what people have submitted for the competition.
It will hopefully give kids a bit of encouragement and confidence, too. I’m really looking forward to doing that other than the fact that it’s gonna be so hard to choose because they’re all still good so far. They’re so imaginative. A lot of them have come with such detailed descriptions of who this creature is, what they do, what their favorite foods are, where they live, and who their friends are and it’s just wonderful. 😃🤗
Petra: If a kid was asking you now, what advice would you give them if they wanted to start creating and turn it into a business? What are the key lessons that you have learned so far?
AJ:
First, I would say don’t be afraid to ask for help. It’s not a bad thing to ask for help from people and lean on those around you. My partner is a part of my business and she does so much to help me and so does my dad and my sister, and the people up in my studios. So, truly, the biggest thing is: don’t be afraid to ask for help. You can’t do it all by yourself.
Try not to put too much pressure on yourself because it’s really easy to burn yourself out quickly if you’re doing far too much. When I first started working for myself, I was working all day, every day. I wasn’t taking any days off because it was something I enjoyed doing and it was a hobby that turned into a business. I felt like I love doing this, I can do it all the time, and then it turned into: I love doing this and I need to make my rent, so I’m going to do this all the time. Then suddenly, I was ill and constantly getting the cold and the flu and different kinds of viruses, and it was just my body’s way of telling me that I needed to slow down.
So be kind to yourself, take days off, and give yourself a schedule.
For me personally, I take a Thursday and a Sunday off and even if I do want to go into the studio, I don’t because I know that if I do that, I’m going to burn myself out and get ill. It’s very tempting when you work for yourself to just constantly be working from home and from wherever you work if you don’t work from home. Give yourself a break.
Petra: What is your working setup like with your partner?
AJ: I and my partner share a studio space because my partner’s also an artist and she works next door to me [Celda Mae specializes in ceramics and jewelry]. She helps me with all my emails because I find it really hard to keep up with my messages. If there are any easy questions, she’ll quite often email the person for me and then she starts the things for me that I need to answer. She also helps me with packing and sending orders. Celda will print labels for me and I’ll pack up the boxes and label each one what they are and then we’ll get everything together and drive them over to the post office. And then we’ll get a pizza. 😅It’s our routine after a day like that: we go home and have a big old pizza.
Petra: Talking about routines, do you have a daily routine? Can you walk me through a typical day in your business?
AJ: It’s always a bit different but there is a loose routine. Most days, I’ll be in the studio making and then I’ll have a kind of admin day maybe once a week when I go through my emails. But on a typical day, I get up and I don’t like to hang about the house too long, so I usually just pack my bag, get the dog stuff ready and we both head into the studio. Sometimes I check my emails before I get started and answer if there’s anything that needs urgently answered, but if it can wait a couple of days, then I’ll mark it unread and then leave that for my admin day so that I’m not spending hours and hours each day doing emails. Then, I’ll get into making and what I’ll be doing that day depends on what stage I’m at. Sometimes it’s throwing, sometimes it’s glazing or sculpting.
I quite often write myself a post-it list for the day with what I want to get done. Later, I take a lunch break and then take the dog out for his walk in the afternoon which is my reset stage. I usually leave that for the middle of the day when I’m starting to feel a bit tired and then I’ll go out for my walk with the dog and come back for another few hours and then I’ll head home, probably about five-ish.
Petra: Do you use any digital tool or app for your to-do lists?
AJ: I have tried doing it digitally before but it didn’t work well for me. I either write things down and forget about them because they were on my phone. Also, when I write things down on my phone, I get completely sucked into other things and do my emails or scroll on Spotify for ages. I prefer to keep work-related things off my phone.
Where I write things now are my post-it notes. I go through so many of them but it’s a good system because it gives me a very limited space of what I can get on one post-it for the day. It stops me from giving myself too much to do because I physically can’t write very much on one piece. That has been really helpful for me and it seems very simple, but it’s something that’s made a big difference in my practice. I’ve got four or five tasks, and all manageable goals, which is also important, and something that I’m still working on.
Petra: Regarding your creative process, you mentioned that you usually start with sketches. Do you find it hard to say when something is finished?
AJ: I think I used to, but I don’t have that so much anymore because I have my established style now. But, I can have many questions when I’m making new things: “How many features do I put on this? Does it need any pattern on it? How much pattern is too much pattern? Does it look too plain?” It’s definitely a lot of trial and error. I think that I make things a lot of the time that I’m not quite satisfied with but I don’t think that’s bad because I can then say, what about it? I’m not quite happy with it now, so I’ll change that one thing on the next one. With ceramics, because the firings are so final, I can’t change anything on it once it’s done, anyway. I just say I’m going to try something differently and see if it makes it any better. I think there’s a constant cycle of change coming through my work but I also believe that’s a really good thing.
Petra: How do you keep yourself motivated and inspired throughout your creative cycles and changes?
AJ: That’s really tricky because what works is not getting stuck in the studio and doing things that are outside of my usual routine. I find it quite inspiring to do classes and meet new people, to teach people, and to see the things that they make that can be so different than what I’ve ever thought of. That’s one of the reasons I’m doing the kids’ competition because I’m looking to be inspired by the imagination of kids, and what they’re coming up with, and maybe that will make me think less structured and keep me inspired.
It’s also important that you don’t isolate yourself. I find that speaking to other artists and even non-artists keeps me going. Taking a break every now and then also helps when I’m getting quite burnt out. Taking a step back for a few days, doing something that I enjoy, that’s not ceramics, will then inspire me to go back to the studio and try doing something that I wouldn’t have started otherwise if I hadn’t taken that break and gone to the beach or for a walk.
Petra: How do you manage self-doubt and the fear of failure as a creator?
AJ:
The fear of failing stops you from doing something and I think that is a really hard feeling to push through but it is all about pushing through and just doing the thing anyway, even if it does go wrong. Because it can open up so many other opportunities for you. There are so many things that I’ve made that I’ve not been happy with and have gone horribly wrong. But if I hadn’t done that, then I wouldn’t have gotten to the next thing that I’m really happy with. And so it’s worth pushing through on those bad days and those awful projects that you never want to see again, to get to the good ones. If I hadn’t failed at throwing on the wheel a thousand times, I wouldn’t have been able to ever make anything.
Petra: Our last question to all the creators we interview. How would you describe a creator in your own words?
AJ:
If you are making something, you are a creator. I don’t think it needs to be anything more than that. Even if you’re making something and you’re not making the same thing every time, maybe you’re painting one week and sewing the next, or you’re doing clay one week and then changing it up with something else, I think you’re still a creator because you’re passionate about making things and whether it’s digital or physical, you’re taking that passion and you’re doing it. I don’t really think it needs to be any more than that.
Find AJ:
Featured image based on original image by @ajceramic
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